Thursday, November 11, 2010

The Friend Zone Part 2

Well, here we go again with The Friend Zone. You'll remember in my last post, I talked about The Nice Guy and how to move out of the Friend Zone if you find yourself in such a situation with a girl you've fallen for. But today, I'm actually going to hit on something different. Last week I stumbled upon a new site called Dudeships and found it to be quite interesting. Written by a few guys, this particular blog is adamant about the fact that guys and girls CANNOT be friends - as clearly displayed in the classic When Harry Met Sally movie back in the 80s. And to some degree, I can agree with it. Instead of being "friends" with the opposite sex, these bloggers believe there's such a thing called a "dudeship" in which they define different levels of relationships with women who are not their girlfriends.


My understanding is that they primarily outline Dudeships because they are currently IN committed relationships (or CRs as they call them) and therefore, all other "friendships" with women cannot be classified as friendships because, "men and women can't actually be 'friends'". The more I read it, the more I think it's simply the male version of The Gaggle from WTF. The main difference between the two is that The Gaggle is something that single women cultivate and Dudeships seem to be something that taken men cultivate. Which, I suppose makes sense because, in my experience, men always seem to have another woman on the backburner unless they're married (and even then, sometimes there's someone on the side - not that I'm picking on men but the stereotype seems to be that men are less faithful to women than the other way around. I know this is not always the case so no need to blow up over this, I'm simply stating from personal experience and 2nd hand experience of my friends relationships). So I guess what I'm saying is this: women cultivate a gaggle trying to find that perfect Mr. Right - learning what they like and dislike about members of their gaggle in order to weed out what works and doesn't work from a relationship standpoint. Men, under the assumption that their girlfriends won't appreciate the friendships that they have with other women, have created dudeships as a way of keeping their girl "friends" at an arms length, so as to not disrupt things at home. In some cases, men can who are not in CRs still consider girl friendships to be dudeships but never "friends" because that's still too strong a word. A real "friend" is someone you can let loose around, be yourself, etc. Dudeships are relationships that you want to keep at a certain distance because if the woman in the dudeship saw the real "you", it might shatter any chance you have to eventually sleep with/date/start a relationship. The Gaggle is similar in that, we women will put a little extra effort into our appearance, that text message or email when we're going to see/talk to the men of our gaggle because there could be a looming romantic connection that needs to be explored.

SO, let's examine the differences between the guy's Level of Dudeship and the girl's Gaggle by comparing the definitions of each type of relationship mentioned from the men's and women's sides.
  • Dudeship #1: "Lustship - friendship in which the man or woman just wants to get into the other person's pants."
  • Matches with the Hot Sex Prospect from the Gaggle - a guy that you are totally hot for but probably could never see yourself in a relationship with because he lacks some major characteristic that you need in a boyfriend (steady job, sense of humor, whatever). You're more interested in the physical chemistry and sexual possibilities that emanate from his gorgeous body, than what's going on upstairs. (Shallow but it's true)
  • Dudeship #2: "Hopeship - friendship in which the man or woman is secretly hoping for something more."
  • Matches with both the Boyfriend Prospect - The boyfriend prospect is pretty self explanatory - you think you've got chemistry with this guy, you see yourself dating him and he's got boyfriend material written all over him.
  • Dudeship #3: "Waitship - friendship in which the man or woman is single and is determined to "wait out" the other person's boyfriend/girlfriend and then pounce when they break up."
  • Matches with the Unavailable Guy - This guy is someone you totally click with but who also happens to be in a relationship. As a single gal, you'd never be a homewrecker and ruin things between him and his current girl, but you have a bond that is totally comfortable with one another. If he and his gf ever happen to end things, well, you'd certainly be interested in dating him, after he's had time to lick his wounds of course. (disclaimer: yes, I'm totally aware that this sounds A LOT like The Friend Zone Part 1 - and as Berryfine pointed out in the comments section, men and women can both be guilty of waiting out their crush's current fling and swooping in to come to the rescue when things go awry.)
  • Dudeship #4: "Eventualship - friendship that seems purely platonic right now but which, if continued, stands a good chance of a strong physical/emotional connection developing that leads to feelings in the future."
  • I'm not sure that there's an actual match for this one in the Gaggle. I think women would call this The Nice Guy - the guy that you get along with great but aren't really attracted to - but perhaps one day, when we've barrelled through all of the assholes we're supposed to get out of our system, we'll one day realize that the best thing we ever could ask for was right under our noses. I'm not totally certain that this ever happens except in the movies but...I suppose that this would be the most synonymous for the Gaggle.
  • Or I suppose it could possibly fall into the Super Horny Guy Who Happens to be Around a Lot - this is a guy who you don't respect anything he stands for - the peter-pan-syndrome guy who never grew up, but instead threw up on his buddy last weekend after he had one too many at the bar. He's more concerned that everyone be having a good time than ever settling down into a relationship, but you know that if you hang around with him enough, eventually there may be a possibility that you'll make out with him at a bar after shouting Don't Stop Believin at the top of your lungs after one too many beers. I'll be honest though, that's a stretch for the "Eventualship".
  • Dudeship #5: "Denialship - a friendship between two people who vehemently deny that anything could ever happen between them."
  • Matches with the Prospect You're Not Sure is a Prospect - you're full of mixed signals and people tell you that he's definitely into you but you're simply not sure. Sometimes he sounds so excited to hear from you that you think he's developing feelings, then he'll turn around and tell you about a date he just went on. You can't determine if he's telling you this to subconsciously make you realize you're into him or if he really just wants to tell you about his latest conquests.
  • Dudeship # 6: "Formership - a frienship between two people who used to date."
  • Matches with the Ex-boyfriend Who's Still Around - this is a guy that you dated for a while and know pretty well and can actually stand to be in the same room with one another because things ended aimicably. In fact, your ex knows you so well that sometimes, you just want to confide in him about things that are bugging you in your life - like your little sister is being a total brat to your mom and how to deal with it, etc. He knows your family, you trust him even though you didn't work out romantically in the past, there's something comforting about talking to someone who knows you so well.
  • Dudeship #7: "Egoship - a friendship between a man and a woman where one party is aware that the other person has a crush on him/her and keeps them around merely as an ego boost."
  • Matches with the Ego-booster - this guy pays you unwarranted amounts of attention no matter what. He's someone that your friends and mother love and want YOU to date but for some reason you can't wrap your head around that. But whenever you need a pick-me-up, he's there with a compliment, a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen and a surprise visit when you need it most. He helps get you back on your feet when you're having a shit day and he reminds you of what a wonderful woman you are.
  • "The Acquaintanceship - this is a relationshis between a man and a woman that is someone you've just met, work with, or see because of other external factors such as church, school, book club, etc." This falls outside of the "dudeships" but is still part of the Dudeship blog and it happens to coincide with another member of the Gaggle so that's why I've defined it here.
  • Matches with the Career Booster - that guy that you work with that gives you the inside tip that a promotion is coming up at work and you should go for it. He has a working relationship with you and respects you as a peer. He may bring you coffee in the morning as a nice gesture or he might invite you to a happy hour after work with some other co-workers. He looks out for you in the business world and you want to do the same for him.
The only member of the Gaggle who's not represented here in the Dudeship is the Accessory. And I think that's a piece that the Dudeship needs to incorporate into their system. The Accessory has one of the following qualities (or something akin to this): McDreamy/McSteamy looks, Dave Matthews/John Mayer talent, Aziz Ansari/Daniel Tosh comedic capabilities...I think you get the picture. He has one amazing quality that makes him stand out from anyone else. And you bring him around to impress your friends with him. I suppose it would be the equivalent to a Trophy Wife. Yeah - how about a Trophyship - the woman is an 11 in looks but doesn't have much going on upstairs, or maybe she's got a killer rack but is too concerned with saving every cause that ever existed in the world that you can only tolerate her in small doses.

So in closing - I think the Dudeships and the Gaggle are essentially saying the same thing - only the Dudeships are examples of relationships that somehow "help their girlfriends sleep at night", knowing that their boyfriends are not "friends" with other girls. Whereas the gaggle is a single-girls open book guide to her dating life. All I know is, if I were in a CR, it wouldn't make me feel any better that my man was in an "eventualship", a "lustship", or a "waitship" with a girl. I'd much rather that they be just friends.

3 comments:

  1. Hey there Everyone, Dudeship here.

    Just wanted to send a shout out to Hot Mess here for doing what every human being should be doing-

    Introspection.

    Props, broseph. : )

    The only thing I wanted to say about this post is a quick comment about my favorite topic ever- Dudeships.

    Though the similarities between The Dudeships and The Gaggle are seemingly quite evident, there are some subtle differences that I think are worth pointing out. We talk about it at length in our fun little ebook(on www.dudeships.net if interested), but the idea is that having Dudeships while in a CR can really hurt the CR for a variety of reasons. So my point here is that you, Hot Mess, wouldn't have to worry about not getting sleep at night because your boyfriend is in a dudeship because in fact, he shouldn't have ANY dudeships. He should be keeping all his other female relationships safely in the acquaintanceship zone. By doing this, he is giving you peace of mind that he isn't going around fostering other relationships with other females.

    So I guess the Gaggle and the Dudeships are neither the same nor totally different. Like separated twins from birth we both grew up to look alike but behave in totally different ways. Whereas(help me if I'm wrong here) the Gaggle is more of a way to manage the various Dudeships in one's life, the Dudeships theory takes it a step further and is essentially commenting on what to DO with all those Dudeships if you want to have a functioning CR. If you aren't in a CR, then there's really no harm in having Dudeships at all because no one is really getting hurt in the process, except I guess the one who's not getting what they want i.e. are in the "friend zone".

    By the way, I love the trophyship you mentioned. The Dudeship team is currently doing research for v2 of the Dudeships book, so who knows... you might even see this plus another shout out in the next edition : )

    By the way, curious to hear your thoughts and your readers' thoughts on some R&D of ours. The term is "illusionship". Here's the pitch-

    Illusionship- A relationship between a man and a woman who appear to be best/great friends, but in reality they don't know each other as well as they thought they did because one of them(the one wanting more out of the relationship) was putting up a front(not really showing true colors) and at the same time not truly understanding the other person because they are blinded by their infatuation of that person. This creates a disconnect in the relationship... but on the outside it looks and functions just like a "friendship".

    Thoughts?

    Thanks for reading,

    Sincerely,

    Dudeship

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hey there Dudeship,

    Thanks for the comments - had a rather busy few days so I'm sorry for the late response. I think you've definitely helped clear-up any dudeship communications. I can definitely support dudeships for single people, and in that respect, I think they do mirror the Gaggle in some ways. I'm happy to help further spread the written word of the dudeship because I think it's a pretty great concept. And I'd be honored if I received a shout-out in v2.0 for Trophyship :)

    As for illusionship, it sounds like one party puts the other on a pedestal, while pretending to be something he/she is not for the sake of impressing the one on the pedestal. Is that right? Or did I just totally confuse myself (and you)? Does the one on the pedestal always show his/her true colors in this dudeship? Or are they just as guilty as the other? Or are they simply lead to believe that their friend(the admirer) is just something that he/she is not?

    I think I'm just having a hard time associating this dudeship with a real-life example so I'm not sure if it's that common to be made a regular dudeship...but maybe I just haven't experienced it firsthand.

    Again, thanks for the comment!

    ~Hot Mess

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  3. I agree.

    And you are totally right about our concept of the illusionship. Actually, here's the story about how it started, and where we're at in the R&D.

    It all started when I was telling a work friend of mine about the Dudeship concept. She agreed for the most part, but then countered by saying that she is "best friends" with a guy who she used to date. They broke up, and after about a year of being apart, they started talking and became best friends.

    She vehemently denies that they have any chance of ever dating again, and I tend to agree, considering they've already tried it out : P

    So I've got a few struggles with this as far as how it fits into the Dudeship theory, and have been trying to find a way to categorize it properly.

    At first, I thought it must be a formership(by definition.). Technically it is... but I think it is different than most formerships because usually there's one person who REALLY wants to get back together(usually the one who got dumped : / sad fact of life.). In this case, neither wants to get back together.

    So I guess maybe the Formership needs a subcategory, or rather it is just a denialship AND a formership AND an eventualship.

    The trifecta of doom. : )

    My only question is what happens when one of them gets a significant other...

    Would you be chill with your lover having an opposite sex best friend who knew them better than you do? Would feel a bit threatening I think, and I would assume that the relationship would be healthier and thrive better without the lingering/useless dudeship.

    ReplyDelete